Circling The Drain

Unknown: Hey, welcome back to
circling the drain podcast. It's

the show that wants to try to
keep the entertainment world and

the radio world all of that from
going into the garbage disposal.

And I think we're kind of
getting there. And my partner

right over here, brother, Jay.
Partner, yeah, how you doing,

Jay? I'm doing fine. Partner,
thank you, partner, thank you,

partner, I got an email from a
young lady.

Oh, young lady, what? So you're
already attracting? Young lady,

no,

no, it's you. It's you. She
wants to know if that is a

wallet in your pocket, or if
you're glad to see going back to

a previous five years, a little
callback there. And the guy that

keeps us running. Jim McCarthy,
Jim, how you doing? My brother?

I'm doing well. Thank you for
having me. Well, you know, we

were talking before the every
all the cameras came on and

everything, we thought we'd
invite you guys into this

discussion. We were talking
about story songs, because they

used to be pretty popular in the
music world, yeah.

You know, especially in the
country music genre, Oh, yeah.

But, you know, even in the in
the pop world as well, well,

we were just talking about the
one that I liked it. It didn't

seem like you guys were as wild
about us as I was, but the wreck

of the Edmund Fitzgerald, I
always loved that song.

Yeah, I understand I wasn't a
big

no, I I totally agree with you,
though. I mean, I was certainly

captivated by that song, even
though the melody just kind of

went over and over. Well, yeah,
and the song was, it was three

days long. Also it

was very long, but it was a
great three business days, yes,

but it has some great

line, absolutely. I mean, Gordon
Lightfoot, you know, sadly, he

passed away here, what about a
year or so back? And, yeah, he,

you know, he was one of those
artists that people under seem

to under appreciate, as is the
case with many artists. I guess

people in general, after he
passed, people came out of the

woodwork about how great he was,
well,

and that always the case, yeah,
yeah, that's always the and why

is that? I always wonder why all
of a sudden, records just take

off. When these guys it was
when, like, Eddie Van Halen

died, the Van Halen catalog just
went nuts,

yeah, and the best career move
was death, yeah, it really is.

You know, remember when Michael
Jackson passed crazy with with

his records. But you know that
happened recently with Ozzy,

yeah, did you know? Oh, really
did Black Sabbath stuff?

I think when people die early,
you know, Kurt Cobain,

unexpected, Jimmy Hendrix,
right? They're, they're, they're

just, you know, the 27 club,
yeah, it's, they're basically

put up on a pedestal, for

sure. Yeah, they are.

Janis Joplin, yeah, legendary.
Morrison, yeah, Brian Jones of

the stone. But it seemed like,
boy, there were a bunch of them

there in the 60s and early 70s.
Van Gogh, yeah. Van Gogh, he van

went.

That was very good. In fact, he
started the my late friend Phil

Valentine started on his show.
If anybody wasn't quite

listening as closely as they
should, he'd always call them a

Van Gogh listeners. And for
those that don't know the Van

Gogh story, he cut off an ear
and didn't he send it to a lover

or girl that he was Yeah, yeah.
Didn't quite work out. That's

kind of

he did not. He didn't see that
he was friend zoned, yeah? She

put, she put him in the friend
zone.

Yeah, she did, yeah. We could
still be friends, right? But,

you know, there's so many great
story songs out there. One guy

that was really good, I thought,
in writing story songs was Guy

Clark. What a great I mean,
yeah, homegrown tomatoes, yeah,

Randall knife about his father.
I mean, very, very good song.

But you guys aren't the first
person people that talked about

the need for the story song, the
concept of the story song to

make a comeback. My brother is
of the same opinion.

Well, we're right there with
him, yeah, right there with you,

bro, yeah. But, I

mean, you know, the songwriting
industry, and the whole music

industry is, like, you know,
even Neil Thrasher talks about

AI being the best co writer
right now, and that's going to

be a thing.

Boy, AI, boy, that's going to be
an, what we talked about, that's

going to be, you talk about a
death nail the radio, well,

radio talent, and it's and it's
troubling for the music

business. Yeah, it is very
troubling. Well, in fact, we're

already seeing it. If you, if
you look at social media,

they're putting out a lot, and
especially like on Facebook, I

noticed it more so than any
other. They're putting up AI

images that aren't real, and
they're also putting stories to

it that, yeah, that are BS.
Yeah, they are. I mean, they're

not even true. There's one out
now that says there's going to

be a big 2026, tour with stones
and Springsteen and, oh, really,

oh yeah, all these acts are
getting together. And I'm

thinking, that's not happening.
Yeah, no, it's not gonna

happen. I did it. I always
thought like a good collab.

Collaboration would have been
with Eddie Van Halen and Ricky

Skaggs. That would have been, I
think you actually I put the

picture up and you, I think you
commented on it, yeah, as well

as Mike fucel Fussel, yeah, was
the tree. He was a die hard

Eddie Van Halen fan. I said that
would have been a collaboration

just for us nerds.

Well, yeah, it would. And you
talk about two guys that can

play, yeah, oh my gosh, yeah. I
love Ricky Skaggs. I mean that

dude

can play anything. It's got
strings on it. Son of a gun, can

play. Yes, he can.

And, and, plus a big Beatles
fan, yeah, big Beatles fan. In

fact, he always wanted to get a
when I met him, he wanted to get

together with me and talk
Beatles, which I always will

with people.

Well, you know what? Maybe we
get to bring him on the show. I

think that would be

great. The Beatles, yeah. Let's
talk Beatles, really, yeah.

You know, getting back to AI,
with respect to music, I'm sure

you guys have seen there was an
and there been a couple of them,

but there was one act in
particular that had many, many

live streams, was kind of on the
charts, quote, unquote, and it

was total AI, and even the
photos of the band members were

AI created. It was all AI, and
the public had no clue until

they came out. That sounded
weird, yeah, until they until

they made themselves, you know,
public in the sense that, hey,

this is all BS. There are no
live musicians here. This is all

totally, totally AI, well,

you know, that's kind of a sad
thing with music for me right

now. I was just thinking about
this the other day. You know,

when you listen to a lot of the
records from I'll take Dave

Clark, five, for example, glad
all over. If you listen to that

song. I mean, it's got power,
but it's not perfect. There are

mistakes in that song and but
the sound of it, the sound of

that record, I think that's
missing in today's music,

because everything's so damn
perfect

well. And you know when Jimmy
Bowen came along into into

Nashville, you know, when I
worked for him at MCA, brilliant

dude. You know, he brought the
whole digital thing to Music

City and got him off of analog
and got him off the tape. And,

you know, the community, the,
you know, the old guard, if you

will, just went ballistic,
claiming that kind of what

you're saying, that it became
too pristine, yeah, clean, too

cold. It was, it lost its
warmth.

Well, you know, with country
music, I don't know it didn't,

it didn't bother me as much,
because I did like some of the

production on Jimmy Bowen's. I
thought he was great producer.

Absolutely, the guy was
brilliant, yeah, because, I

mean, waylons career, when he
got a hold of Waylon. Waylon had

been sticking with the same
sound for so long that it kind

of lost its, you know, it's
allure. And then when he did,

will the wolf survive with Jimmy
Bowen, that was a great, great,

great album in his version of
that, oh yeah, just kicked butt

man with the mandolins, that hot
mandolin there, yeah,

but with rock and roll music, I
think a lot of the best rock and

roll music was made, I mean, was
done in the studios and and,

like I said, Dave Clark, five is
a great example. Glad all over

if you've never heard that song,
if you're a youngster out there,

listen to the song and listen to
the energy that record

that, that's the word for me,
energy. I mean, you go back to a

lot of that old rare earth, oh
yeah, stuff, man, just sizzles

needles, the stones, the energy
on that, those records, you

know, just sounds like hey, and
I'm sure it was, you know, they

just all piled in a studio, and,
you know what? 2123, and, you

know, in a way, they went, Man,

yeah, Dave Clark was not the
greatest drummer. I mean, I

think you can back me up on
that, but there was something

about his sound. People will say
the same

thing about Ringo. Oh, Ringo was
perfect for the beat. He was

absolutely perfect. And the
thing is that, and Greg

Bissonette identified this. He
says, you take the music out of

and you just listen to the drums
on any Beatles song, you could

tell what it is. You could tell
what song it is. Yes, he was

that good in terms of making it
identifiable. And you could say

a lot of these guys came up with
their own sound. Alex Van Halen,

for sure, you know, you could
tell he's playing. You could

tell Neil's playing. You could
tell just a lot of guys are some

for most drummers, they don't
really come up with their own

sound, but I will say I did when
I when I had to play with the

Huey band a couple months ago.
Yeah, I wanted to put a click

track just to because they had
different, like tracks we were

playing with, but I wanted to
have the actual music as a

reference when I was practicing
right? That was a chore, because

those guys didn't record with a
click,

yeah, well, and when you try to,
because I have a friend, Todd

Austin, who is known as Todd
Zilla in Nashville, great guitar

player. He was playing with a
prince tribute band, and they

were really good. But. He said,
Man, trying to replicate. He

said that dude was a brilliant
guitar player, yeah, and try and

Todd also, it was big Van Halen
fan, and that's who Todd kind of

reminds me of. Is Prince, a
combination of Prince and Van

Halen, right? That's the kind of
sound that I think he brings

out.

And my point being is that with
those old records here, they are

having a lasting impact, almost,
standards. Yes, you know, cross,

not from genre, but you know,
generation, multi, generation

hits. You know, don't stop
believing. What are the don't

stop believings being written
today. You know what I mean?

No, exactly. And I think one
thing that's hurting it too, is

the concert prices, right?
Because when we were growing up,

it didn't cost that much to go
to a concert, seven or eight

bucks maybe, and you were in,
you know. But nowadays, I mean,

you're talking, it's getting up
to $500,000

to, well, to go to a show,

yeah. I mean, what? McCartney
here in Nashville, oh, man, you

know, over 1000 bucks just to,
you know, of course, a smaller

venue as well, that affects
things, yet it does, yeah,

but yeah, that's what's I think
that, and I think that's what's

kind of killing rock music right
now, is that, where are the kids

going to get their inspiration
from if they can't afford to go

to these shows, because a lot of
the musicians that we really dug

like Van Halen brothers, for
example, they were not, they

didn't grow up wealthy, no, and
they wouldn't have been able to,

you know, put together $500 to
go to a show.

They also grew up in an age, and
an age, a time and a location

that was lightning in a bottle.
Oh, was

it ever? Yeah, and talk about
perfect, yep. I mean, getting

David Lee Roth, getting Michael
Anthony, just the Sunset Strip

that whole night. Oh, it was.
And the sad thing about Michael

Anthony, I think that guy gets a
real he's kind of like Ringo. He

gets a short shrift. You know,
people say, well, he wasn't that

great of a bass player. He was,
but very he was, he was

underrated. But what he really
brought to the band was the

sound of vocal sound, because
David's vocals would have really

sucked without, without that
high. Michael, Anthony,

well, kind of like, uh, Buck
Owens and Don rich, exactly, you

know, after Don rich, sadly, you
know, was killed in that

motorcycle wreck. I think he was
like 34 Yes, when he passed

buck, Owen's career was never
the same. No, it

really wasn't. He added a lot to
his sound, yeah. So, yeah,

there's a lot of but, yeah, I
wish it's not that I want to go

back so much, but I think
they're trying too hard to make

every record just perfect. And
Perfection doesn't always mean

the greatest musical ever heard.
Sometimes you take Deep Purple's

made in Japan, for example, that
was a great record, and there

were no overdubs, no overdubs
done at all, and you can hear

mistakes in it. Blackmore makes
mistakes. In fact, Blackmore

used to drive me crazy because
he never replicated the the

total solo he did on Highway
star, which was one of my

favorite Deep Purple songs, but
he always screwed around in I

think he's a great guitar
player. Was like, play the solo

like you recorded, come on.

Well, you know, when it was
recorded, it was probably just

free form, you know? And, well,
yeah, they're trying to recreate

that any given night kind of
that's true, that's

true. And plus, they recorded it
in a hotel,

which is how they came up with
Smoke on the Water.

You know, live albums,

to me, you know, way back when,
just the sound of them, the I

don't know, just the audio
quality of a lot of live albums,

way back when, I never really
liked live albums for that

reason, until Elton John's 1117,
70. That was a great record

where they just kicked ass.
Three guys, man, Dee Murray on

bass. Oh yeah, Nigel Olsen on
drums. I had, I had dinner with

Nigel Olsen. Did you really way
back when? Anyway, and and then,

of course, Elton on piano. And
there were mistakes in that. I

mean, it was live that, I think
the Troubadour in LA, yes, is

where that was recorded. And
just that, you know, going back

to the word energy, yeah, I mean
the energy and passion. I mean

Elton was smoking back then. Oh
yeah, he was, you know, I think

that was his best period from
about 70 till about 7475 when he

started the caribou album, with
all the drugs and stuff, is

where he just, kind of, you
know, started to write, to go

downhill, but mad man across the
water. Tumbleweed, connection,

honky chateau, my favorite, you
know, I mean, just great stuff.

Stuff. And again, it was all
about just the passion and the

energy of those albums. And I
don't know, I don't sense that

in some of the the newer stuff.
Now, of course, things are now

so electronic. Yeah, that's that
kind of for me. Anyways, a turn

off. Well, they also overdub
now, I mean, if there's a

mistakes made on live show.
They'll overdub now. Van Halen

last live Record Tokyo dumb and
concert. You know, they didn't

overdub anything on that because
their mistakes and plus Dave's

voice, you know, nowadays is God

not stellar. Yeah. Did you guys
watch the Billy Joel documentary

that came out? No, I've yet

to see that. Oh, it's
incredible. Is that right here?

Is that a Netflix thing? Ah,
there might be primer Netflix,

one of the two. But, you know,
just following his career and

everything, speaking of getting
back the story songs, you know,

piano, man,

yeah. I mean, right? Billy Joel,
I mean, a number of his big hits

were story songs.

Oh yeah, the entertainer. What a
great, great, great tune.

Italian restaurant, yes, yeah.
The Entertainer was a an angry

song, because he's like,

we're getting this off. Yes. Let
me write about Well, see, I like

those. I kind of like them. I
like the tunes that where people

take well, I David Allen co had

one boy, he did a lot of those
screw you mentality, oh yeah.

Sense of

humor was a good one, yeah.

But there was, comes when you're
pissed off, yeah,

but, but when he wrote one that
I loved, it was kind of directed

toward the music industry, and
he dedicated it to Bob Dylan.

Was called castles in the sand.
Yes, I remember. And that was a

great and talk about a great
story song. And we'll have this

guy on with us, actually, the
guy that wrote the ride where he

meets the ghost of Hank
Williams.

David Allen co David, you know,
with the big hit, yeah, but it'd

be Gary Gentry. He's a great
songwriter, and has written a

lot of but we'll have him in,
yeah, he's, he had a lot of

great story songs, like 1959

John Anderson, yeah, yeah. Some
good, good stuff. So yeah,

looking forward to to meeting
him. So he's a cool guy.

It's funny, because I think the
allure of a story song still

exists, especially amongst the
young population. Believe it or

not, like my daughter, who's
still a teenager, she's 19, she

was into a play. She's very big
into Broadway shows, especially

contemporary ones. They were
very big into Hamilton. Yeah, it

really kind of piqued my
interest when she got into a

show called Dear Evan Hansen.
And the music in that is really

good. And of course, you know,
Broadway plays tell a story, and

the musicality of them to help
to tell those stories. But it

was, yeah, I mean, it's so
there's something there, you

know that if you're, if you're a
songwriter in town, give

it a shot. Oh, yeah, I'll tell
you who another guy that did a

great job with story songs, and
it may engage guys. May not

agree with me, but Alice Cooper,
yeah, great, great story song.

Oh, I know just, you know, I had
a friend of mine, or is actually

a friend of my father's. He did
it. He had a rock station in

Kansas, and Alice Cooper played.
He was about the only him, and

there were only a few bands that
came through my hometown of

Wichita. Alice played there
every year, right? And this guy

was going, he took every act out
for dinner, and had a lot of

interesting stories. He said
Alice Cooper totally blew him

away, because he said, I go to
pick this guy up, and I'm

expecting a real freak show. He
said he was like Fred McMurray,

you know, my three sons. Yeah.
He said he was just very

straight down the drank a lot of
beer, but, yeah, but he said,

very normal, nothing like what
he was expecting.

Yeah, Budweiser was his sponsor
back then. Yeah, it was Yeah.

And I think he personally kept
Budweiser in business the way he

for a long time. Yeah, he was a
practitioner, yes. But, you

know,

it was kind of like me and Jack
Daniels. You know, I drank so

much Jack Daniels that when I
went to visit the Jack Daniels

distillery here in Tennessee,
they had a new walkway that they

had just put in. I swear to God,
I probably paid for that.

Well, when you walked in there,
it was like norm on cheers, you

know,

thank you for keeping us in
business for so many years. That

was the worst thing. Whenever I
quit drinking, I think they

quiet the blues at Jack Daniels,
oh, man, he's oh no, oh no. He

lost Johnny.

Yeah, Alice now, all totally

Christian, yeah, totaler, yeah.
Oh hey, man, good for him.

You're not kidding, man, yeah, I
saw him at a send amphitheater

when he, you know, here in
Nashville, I guess it's been a

couple of years ago now, and,
you know, still entertaining as

can be with all of the theatrics
and and whatnot. You know.

Well, he brought back the old
band too, which I'm glad,

because I've missed that band,
to be honest, I like the other

musicians he's had. It, but it
didn't have the magic that those

guys had together. And so now
they brought it back with the

revenge of Alice Cooper. So I'm
anxious to hear the whole album.

I've heard some of it.

You know, he'll be here next
month with Judas Priest. Yes, he

will first think,

all right, yeah, yeah. The venue
that's impossible to get in and

out. Have you been there? Yeah,
the last time I was there, I sat

there longer than I wanted to,
trying to get in and out of

there. It was just one lane.
They had, you know, to get in

and out.

I just Uber in and out. Man,

you're the smart man. That's why
Jim is our guy. He's really the

brains of this old right, you

know, and that's troubling. But
you know

that we talk about venues. We
used to have a place here called

Starwood.

Oh, yep, saw many great acts
there. Yeah,

it was, oh, I had a great time
down there. But yeah, trying to

leave that place, because, as
always, it could be a challenge.

Oh, it could be. Everybody was
Murfreesboro Road, yeah, then

they were inebriated. A lot of
people, that is true. Yeah,

don't get behind

the wheel if you're when did
they build that place? That was

before I moved here.

Oh, man, that had to be the 80s.
Well, I moved here in 85 and it

was here then, yeah, well,

it was rolling

by then, because the
amphitheater, I guess they were

one of the first model
amphitheater that came out,

because the amphitheater model
took off in the 90s, because we

had the in Hartford,
Connecticut. We had the big

amphitheater up there. It's, you
know, it was like the CT

now.com, it was initially called
the meadows, and, you know, as a

ct now.com, meadows music. That
was such a mouthful to say on

the radio.

Oh, I know

I'm hearing rumors that they're
trying to revive Starwood,

really, that'd be kind of cool,
because I enjoyed Starwood.

I don't know if, I don't know
what is there anything in its

old location? Now, I've, now, I
haven't been out there, you

know, Antioch. I haven't,

no, I haven't either, yeah, I
don't know if it's not a desired

place to go,

yeah, yeah. It can be a little
rough, yeah. But, you know, the

story songs, many of them also
seem to transcend genres. Yes,

you know, I mean, the gambler,
that thing was played everywhere

in the same thing with Marty
Robbins El Paso, that was a big

pop hit as well back in 1960
Yeah. And Kenny Rogers had

another one called Lucille.
Yeah, Lucille and coward of the

county. I mean, he really rolled
with those stories, songs there,

you know. And let's face it,
those kicked his career into

another gear. I mean, you know,
he was just kind of languishing

with that whole first edition
thing.

Oh, yeah. He was country music
really. I mean, Larry Butler

should be, yeah, the really
commended for bringing him back

from, yeah.

And then, you know, that period
there in the mid 80s where Kenny

Rogers kind of sort of announced
that he was a pop star, you

know, he was doing a lot of that
lush, orchestra laden stuff, you

know, Lady and, oh yeah, when he
got with Lionel Richie, Lionel

Richie. And then, you know, kind
of disowned, dissed country

radio to a certain degree. Yeah,
and there were a lot of country

stations. I remember it well.
It's like, Hey, Kenny, just

remember us, yes, see this yeah,
see this thing.

Yeah.

Tell us how you really Yeah,
yeah.

So he did himself no favors
doing that, but, but, yeah,

Kenny Rogers, you know, I, I got
to be around Kenny a bit. I was

stage managing a TV special that
was filmed in Branson, and Kenny

Rogers was one of the, well, he
was kind of a presenter on the

on the show and, you know,
teleprompter and all that stuff

at a podium. And they ran into
some technical problems. I mean,

it was a live taping thing with
an audience and whatnot, yeah,

and Kenny Rogers, you know, I
went and, you know, he said,

Hey, we're ready for Kenny. So I
run back to the dressing room,

you know, you know Mr. Rogers,
you know time for you know, I

didn't sound like that, but you
know what I mean, Hey, Kenny,

we're ready for you.

So, like an old school lucky

strikes, that's right, yeah.

But so anyway, I grabbed Kenny,
you know, and we go into the

wings there, and we're waiting.
And then they're like, oh, hold

up. Well, you know, delay. So
I'm standing there with Kenny.

We're shooting the breeze a
little bit. And then finally,

you know, we kind of the delay
got a little longer, a little

longer, and, you know, we're
keeping this clean, but he

probably said more F words,
waiting on, you know, what the f

is taking so effing, you know,
FF and ballistic, you know, it

was like Tony Montana in
Scarface, you know. But, yeah,

he grew very, very impatient,
you know? Yeah, well. Was going

on. And finally, when everything
was clear, you know, he pops out

on the stage and, you know, good
evening and never, you know,

just missed, you know, he turned
it on. You know,

see, that's what I love about
Pete. There was a, and I won't

say who it was, but I was told
about someone that was on local

TV here, the newscaster female,
and they said that and that,

they said that she was just
blowing a gasket. I mean,

cussing everybody out, yelling
nothing was right. And they were

count and they were counting her
down and when, when they got to

where she was on camera. Hi, I'm

Little Miss Sunshine.

See, I couldn't do that because
I remember when I worked with

Phil Valentine, if I was really
having a bad day, and Phil would

always do this. I think he did
it on purpose because he wanted

me to lose it on the air. But
he'd go everything, all right,

in there. And instead of going,
everything's great, Phil, we're

having a great time. Instead, it
was, you know, no,

who's asking?

But yeah, Branson, Missouri,
that's another I remember Johnny

Cash. Johnny Cash had the, I
think he said this to his

daughter. I read this in a book
that Robert Hilbert did on on

Johnny Cash. But apparently,
when Johnny Cash went to went to

Branson, come on in, dude, come
on in, because you're going to

be on the show, on our next on
our next podcast. Yeah, we're,

we're doing one right now, but
Gary Gentry has joined us. He's

gonna be good to see you, bro.
But we're talking about story

songs. This guy actually wrote
some great ones. Yeah, some

classics. But I was gonna tell
you about Johnny Cash, right

with Branson, Missouri. He
apparently told his daughter. He

said, You know the difference
between Jurassic Park and

Branson, Missouri? Blue hair.

I so which daughter was that?
John? It was Kathy. It was,

again, it was a cat.

John Carter, wouldn't there, you
know,

but, yeah, again, you know,
getting back to the crossing

over to different formats and
stuff, I mean, story songs have

more of a propensity to do that
than, you know, any other types

of songs, certainly too, you
know, because, I mean, people

from whether you're a rock fan,
pop fan, country, bluegrass,

whatever it may be, you can
still relate to these story

songs. Oh yeah, death. You know,
regardless of the quote, unquote

style of the song itself. Can't
forget about Harry Chapin, man,

oh yeah, the master

cats in the cradle. What a great
song, W O L D, oh yeah. That was

a great song. W O L D, I'm all
about Harry Chase.

He had a lot of good songs he
did, yeah, I guess that's like

that. That's the only death that
happened that didn't really have

the effect, you know, it kind
of, I mean, his music may be

kind of the cats in the cradle,
of course, had longevity, but

the rest of the songs are just,
you got to really like my wife

introduced me to a lot of his
music because her parents used

to listen to it. And, you know,
we used to listen to it when we

dated, when we got married, and
cleaning the apartment, and it

just gets embedded, yeah, it's
just good

stuff, yeah, yeah. I mean, it
seems like just about everything

he did was a story song, taxi.
Oh yeah, I forgot about that

one. Yeah. How are you, Harry?
So, yeah, that that, yeah, and,

but where are those types of
songwriters again, you know,

Gary Gentry, just walking in,
you'll be joining us here in a

podcast. And, yeah, you know, I
would love to kind of ask him,

you know, what he thinks about,
you know, where is this other?

Where is the new generation that
has the ability, or the desire,

perhaps, to write those songs?
You know,

yeah, we need more of those,
because there was such great

writers. Very true.

But, I mean, even,

to be fair, a lot of the hits in
the 80s, the rock hits and stuff

like that, you know, jump wasn't
a story song, not at all. What

would you what kind of a song
would you call that? Though?

Jump, yeah,

that's a great question.

It's inspirational,

believe. Well, I thought it was,
I thought it kind of, I

understood it. I've asked, kind
of the way David Lee Roth, you

know, had written it, that it's
trying to tell you to jump and,

you know, to go, like, say, if
you're, if you're trying to

reach a goal of some kind, jump
for it, right? Or if you're

trying to ask a girl out and
you're afraid to jump, make it

happen, even if everything goes
wrong, at least you jumped. At

least you you tried to reach the
brass ring, so to speak,

like presently conceptual, I
guess would be,

wow, man, that's too heavy.

That's really deep. Yeah. Up. I
always loved what he the story

he told of what inspired him to
write it. He always said that he

was in his car in LA and that
somebody was threatening to

jump. Oh, really, off a bridge.

Go ahead, jump.

Have you read the book The
brothers

book yet? Yeah, I have, yeah,
very good, yeah, very good book.

I was just surprised. There were
nothing about the Hagar years or

anything of that nature.

Yeah, Alex is holding on to that
anger. Well, there's

the Van Halen brothers as a
talent as they are. They know

how to hold a grudge. I know
they do that better than they

do. They're even they're
playing, I know they're very

dedicated to that.

It's like, you know, it's a
double, double edged sword with

the sharper side of it pointed
towards you, yeah? Living on

anger like that. Yeah, it is.
That's ridiculous. But you know,

Bon Jovi living on a prayer.
It's kind of a story song, yeah,

it is. Well, Tommy and Gina

and what was the other one that
he had? He did, I think it was a

solo Bon Jovi. Was it glory? Was
laser glory? Yeah, that was kind

of a story song,

right?

And there was a song that Mark
chestnut cut that was, I

believe, a Bon Jovi song,
really. And it was, it was a

single in chest. I, you know, we
used to play it on the the

classic country station, yeah,
and I'm drawing a blank on the

title of the thing, but at the
time, chestnut said it was a

mistake that he recorded that.
But it still gets played, you

know, on, on classic country,

yeah, there's some, there's some
country covers that probably

should have never been done. You
know, far as

rock Conway Twitty, slow hand.
What did you think of that? Or

heartache tonight? You know,
Conway,

heartache tonight was a little.
I actually liked his version of

slow hand. I thought it was
okay. The Rose, yeah, that's a

little

Yeah, yeah. Conway was in that
period there on Warner Brothers

where he just was like, Mr.
Cover, you know,

the one that really came to my
mind when we were talking about

this. And Gary, I'm sorry if
you're a fan of this song, but

Garth Brooks version of fever by
Aerosmith I couldn't get

in. Yeah, or, what about
shameless, what did you think of

that? It was all right, you know
the Billy Joel.

It was our I see, I'm not a,

truth be told, I'm just not a
big Garth fan.

Yeah, honey. You and I've talked
about that. I am not either. I

mean, I'm just really
indifferent.

I mean, well, I am too. It's not
that I dislike him, right? Yeah,

he's just not my cup of tea.

Yeah, yeah, that. But, you know,
you got to give him credit

there, though,

oh my gosh. I mean, the guy
changed 8990,

when he came along, you know,
the pendulum started swinging

back. A little more traditional.
Well, I

think he did what Steve Earle
was trying to do. He was, I

think that Garth actually made
the country music shows more of

a rock event. Yeah, true, and
crossed him over to an audience

that, yeah, didn't get into
country music

instead of a guy just standing
there, wooden with the guitar.

Here's a song I wrote back in,
you know. Well, okay, thank you.

Well, as much as I love Alan
wrote,

as much as I love Alan Jackson,
the only stage presence that

dude has is, you know, the
moving the leg, yeah,

the sizzle and the stick, yeah,
he did. Well, you know,

there are certain artists who
can get away with that. I mean,

George Strait, just, you know,
stood there and smile, you know,

well,

Waylon Jennings and well, first
time I saw Waylon, I couldn't

believe how entertained I was.
And I thought this guy never

said anything to you, yeah,
never said a word. Never said

only thing I think he said was,
hello. Yes, he was he could

entertain you just by being up
there. Well, come over here, if

you will, have you on early

this man just landing.

Yeah, we'll put you on early
because you're such a good

friend anyway. Well, I gotta
tell a story before he gets on

here.

Yeah, I'll let you tell

that Butler's building. His
building was next door. Yeah. He

came in one night and Ed Hudson,
the engineer, said, Hey, Gary,

you always wanted to meet
Waylon. Here come. Oh boy, yeah.

He walked in the door. He went
in the bath. I went upstairs to

co write with a buddy. Waylon
was in the studio, Larry Butler

studio, yeah, and when I came
down three hours later, Ed said

he's still in there. I said,
What's he doing? He didn't have

the band. He didn't have any
back. He's listening to drum

beats and bass lips. And Ed Said
he does that. He was all about.

Music. Oh, yeah, he was Waylon.
It was very interesting, because

the only time I met him, and I
really goofed it, because I, for

one, I didn't think he'd talk to
me because I wasn't supposed to

be there. This was a, this was a
meeting that my father had with

a gentleman that produced
waylands Rec. In fact, Wayland,

it was ALCAR T. He used car T
studios a lot, but they were

going to build a big hotel for
artists that would also have,

you know, staging to produce
television shows and all this.

And they really didn't think
Wayland and Waylon and Johnny

Cash were supposed to be at this
meeting. So when, when I get

there, and I'm not even supposed
to be there, my dad just said,

Do you want to come? You can
just sit in there and listen to

everything. He said, I know you
dig Waylon and Johnny Cash. So I

get in there, and Jesse
Coulter's sitting across from

me, and then Jim Carter's over
here. I love June Carter,

because I thought this gal
doesn't care about any, you

know, she doesn't care about any
kind of decorum. She's got her

feet up on the desk. She's
wearing these slippers that are

really, I don't know they're
gaudy, but what was really cool

is Jesse coltra. And man, Was
she beautiful. I mean, I

couldn't shake my eyes out of
this woman, but she was sitting

there, and all of a sudden, and
you couldn't see the door to the

outer office, but the door the
outer office opens, and Jessie

goes, well, there's Wayland. And
I said, How do you know that's

Waylon? She goes, I just know.
And sure enough, in with a

members only jacket. Here it is,
in the middle of summer, got the

members only jacket on the
cowboy hat on. There he is,

Waylon Jennings, and it was very
interesting to watch because I

was more impressed with Johnny
Cash because Waylon was so quick

to sign his name to anything
like I'm thinking, you know, I

really don't know if these guys
can pull it off, and they

didn't. Because I knew that my
father, at the time, was not

financially where he could get
this done himself. But Johnny

Cash was really cool, because he
said, I'll have to look it over

my financial advisor before I
sign my name. But he looked at

me, and he goes, I know you from
somewhere. And I thought, What

do I say? Yes, you do where I
don't know. Yeah, we were

picking up some goods, if you
know what I mean,

gave us sinus trouble.

But yeah, it would be good to
see the story song come back

like this gentleman wrote, and
we're going to get into that in

our in our next future, our next
podcast, right? We're going to

talk about all the great songs
he wrote. But I would like to

see the stories.

I also got to say, you know, in
the 90s Pearl Jam and Jeremy was

a story song. Yes, that. I think
of it, yeah, because I'm, like,

racking my brain, what did I
grow up with? And what was a,

you know, similar to that? You
know, we talked about the

Sullivan so I think we stood
before we started recording,

right? I can't remember the band
that did that song. I'll look it

up, but they wrote a song about
similar to the concept of Saving

Private Ryan, when the military
would put three brothers just to

keep them together because of
what happened with the Sullivan

brothers. They all died on a
naval ship. I want to say,

right? They stopped that
practice. So because, I mean,

you know, three quarters of
their kids were wiped out in one

fell swoop. And the band did a
story about that, a song about

that

story. Well, what I have your
gym. It was a band called

Carolina's spine. That's right.
Caroline spine, yeah. Caroline

spine, yeah.

1995 Yep. Return. Turn your blue
star to gold. Was a powerful

line,

I tell you. And I just think
about another one that was a

story song with Motley Crue Dr
field, good, yeah? Because when

you listen to that song, when
it's tells a story well, and

especially, it was covered by
the Mavericks, if you listen to

their version of it, it's more
of a, I don't know, kind of like

a big band sound to it. Then you
read more the story. Yeah, you

hear more of the story. And
it's, I'm thinking, Man, that's

a heck of a story, actually,
because with Motley Crue. So you

know, you're listening to the
guitar. It's a badass song. Oh,

it was, but when you hear I, I
asked you to listen to Mavericks

version of it. It is really
good. It, in fact, I fell in

love with it more than I did the
original, the crew version.

Yeah, the crew and I love Motley
Crue,

actually, I will say Zach Brown
does a good job of story songs.

Yes, you know, he has some
categories like presently, I

guess more label them presently
conceptual, but he's got a song

that came on. We were doing a
lighting job a couple of years

ago, and I was eight days away
from my family. And I'm a former

electricians approach. On us. So
I'm, you know, we're, we have a

multitude of businesses here, so
including podcasts, really,

yeah, so we went up there, we
did a lighting job up in

Cleveland area. And I'm, you
know, away from my kids, my

family and everything like that,
I'm listening to music. Just

keep myself and you get into the
rhythm of work, and this one

song comes on, and and it's
going to be, if my, my daughter

gets married, it'll be the one
we dance to. But my, I was a

sobbing mess. Oh, yeah. I mean,
yeah,

story songs can get to you,
like,

well, empty chair by trace
Adkins, if you've ever heard

that, it is really very well
done.

There goes my life. Yeah, yeah.
That was written by Neil

Thrasher and somebody else who I
can't think of, but he said

he'll tell you. He's like, Yeah,
that was about my daughter, blue

eyes and bouncing.

Wow. Steve Earle actually wrote
one about his son that passed

away, Justin towns. Earl called
last words, man, I can't listen

to that. I listened to that one
time, and that was it. I

couldn't do anymore.

Kelly Lovelace, he wrote the
Brad Paisley hit. Didn't have to

be that about the dad who became
a stepdad, yeah. And it's a

beautiful song. And then when I
met him for the first time, I'm

like, you wrote that? And he
goes, Yeah. And I said, you sob.

He kind of like real back. I
said, You freaking got me with

that one? I remember when I
heard it, yeah, and I was, oh,

gosh, hit you right in the
fields.

That's when, you know, you got a
good writer, when they can make

you Yeah. And the

unfortunate thing is, Neil even
said thing. He says, I recently

he had said, I've written some
of the best stuff in the last

five years. It'll never get cut.

Wow. That crazy.

So he was sob. He was the same
old boy, right, right. Gary.

Hey, man, man, I tell you, it's
great to see Gary. And I've

never met, but I'll tell you, I
was so excited. I'm Jay Harper,

by the way. But Gary, I was so
excited, you know. Man, I played

your records. Man, you know the
sob, you know, same old boy,

I've always been. Man, I've
always thought

that positions wouldn't play
itself a little risk game, no.

Man, well, I can tell you w, I
N, K, Baton Rouge, Louisiana, we

played the fire

when well, when we when we get
to our next podcast with Gary,

I'm gonna have to tell you all a
story about a song that Gary

wrote that I loved by Johnny
paycheck, called drinking and

driving. Drinking and driving
that woman right out of my mind.

Well, I got, I

had so much trouble out of that
song? Yeah, I will tell you.

We'll tell the story when we get
to our next podcast, which will

be coming up, yeah, little tease
for you, little tease for you.

But yeah, it, I mean, it was a
battle, because I love the song.

Oh yeah. But yeah, I had, I had,
there was a program director.

His wife was a big member of
Matt, right, right. Oh, man, she

gave me, oh, man, it was a
battle, and I lost. Yeah, I

ended up losing. So we'll tell
that story on the next podcast.

I think we should encourage the
listeners in the comments make

sure that you any songs we're
missing that are Star Story

songs, and maybe we can revisit
this topic.

Yeah, please do. And in fact, if
there's ever anything you want

us to talk about that you would
like to to let us know about.

Please, do you know? Please let
us know. Comment to us and and

we'll read them. There we go.
Yeah, a lot of people don't, but

we do. We read them. We read
them. It may not look like if we

know how to read.

Yes, yeah. So soul radio guys do
have a another skill or two?

Yeah? We do. Yeah. So skilled.

We are so skilled, multifaceted

under underratedly skilled, but
skilled, we even know where to

put our

water, underpaid skills. Yes,
right.

We just don't really negotiate
too well for ourselves.

Well, that's the truth, man,
tell me about it. I needed an

agent. I needed you. Back in
those days, you

know, I needed me to I just
didn't know

it took me getting into the
sales game to be like, Oh,

that's how it works. You
actually got to negotiate with

people and understand your value
proposition.

Well, shall we call this to a
close, my friends? Well,

circling the drain. We really
appreciate you joining us

circling the drain with Johnny B
Jay Harper and, of course, Jim

McCarthy. And we're going to be
back next time you see us with

this gentleman right here. Yeah,
good friend and a great

songwriter. Gary Gentry,

thank you, and look forward to
it.