Circling The Drain

Johnny and Jim talk candidly about the state of radio today, the toll of bad management, and how podcasting has become a lifeline after nearly 50 years on the air. 

They share raw stories about being let go over Zoom, losing close friends and mentors like Phil Valentine and Dave White, and trying to find purpose again in a fractured media landscape. Guest appearance by longtime radio pro John David Wells, who breaks down what every radio company must give its talent to survive: money, opportunity, training, and respect.

From Jesse Jackson on Radio Row to meeting your heroes (and being disappointed), to why personality is still radio’s last great hope, this episode is a love letter, a warning, and a blueprint for what comes next.

Timed highlights (for show notes / description)  

 

1:25 – Welcome back to Circling The Drain and where’s Jay Harper?  

2:10 – Losing Phil Valentine, Dave White, and nearly 50 years in radio  

3:24 – Radio as an abusive ex-wife you still miss  

4:29 – Ratings wins, zero attaboys, and keeping the team’s morale up  

6:00 – What good leadership and a healthy culture actually look like  

7:58 – Phil Valentine’s “horse blinders” lesson and controlling what you can  

8:59 – Getting fired over Zoom and bizarre comments from management  

10:21 – When bosses praise your work… and still cut you loose  

11:00 – The managers who shielded talent from corporate chaos  

12:29 – The GM who fired Johnny after “Googling” him  

13:33 – Setting boundaries and standing up to bad management  

14:25 – Producing ratings but not getting respect or revenue credit  

15:35 – Realizing the audience loves you (thanks to a grocery store trip)  

16:33 – Depression after losing Phil and radio, and not knowing what’s next  

17:53 – How this podcast became purpose and therapy  

18:21 – Radio vs. podcasts: competition in a world of millions of shows  

18:52 – Favorite episodes so far: guests, dads, and forgotten artists  

19:53 – Interviewing drummer Sandy Gennaro after seeing him as a fan  

20:48 – Why the pedestal for stars has crumbled (and that’s a good thing)  

21:34 – Social media access, DMs, and how expectations of artists changed  

22:55 – “Don’t meet your heroes”: when radio idols disappoint  

25:01 – How rude encounters can kill your enjoyment of a personality  

25:34 – The responsibility that comes with being meaningful to listeners  

28:21 – Working in Vegas with “star” programmers and becoming peers  

29:17 – Dressing up as your PD for Halloween and winning the contest  

28:48–31:30 – (Overlap) Unassuming talent versus people “too busy being fabulous”  

29:53–31:30 – Nashville’s unassuming radio community  

29:59 – Jesse Jackson at the 2004 DNC and being “Johnny B, you the man”  

31:11 – Remembering a polarizing figure by a single human moment  

31:24 – The conversations we need to have to bridge the political divide  

33:02 – Trump, scapegoats, and the WWE-ification of politics  

34:30 – Voting for people you don’t hate and missing the Clinton years  

35:34 – Accidentally talking politics on a non-political show  

35:49 – Why Johnny still loves radio, even after everything  

36:30 – Losing touch with former coworkers and the rarity of true friends  

37:27 – Dave White and Phil Valentine as real, lifelong friends  

38:15 – What Phil might have done next and the push toward podcasting  

38:59 – Campbell’s talent and why he needs to be creating again  

40:33 – Spotting that Campbell was born for the mic  

41:25 – Campbell shadowing Johnny and realizing what the job really pays  

41:59 – The hard problem: how do you actually monetize this stuff?  

41:56–43:23 – Pitching advertisers: there is an audience here  

42:19 – Radio people vs people who just work in radio  

43:11 – Why former talent talk about radio like a mourning process  

43:23 – How corporate radio could still save itself (if it wanted to)  

44:58 – Losing syndication, coming back local, and a totally different show  

45:15 – Pamela Furr, shifting roles, and not wanting to be just a button pusher  

46:01 – First-ever live call-in: introducing John David Wells  

46:48 – The four essentials of radio: money, opportunity, training, respect  

48:24 – If you have none of those, you’re probably at Clear Channel or Cumulus  

48:28 – Wells’ blueprint for saving radio from corporate debt  

49:56 – Why big groups should cut loose signals to new owners  

51:02 – Dad predicted deregulation’s fallout decades ago  

51:37 – Talent loss, debt, and running stations into the ground  

51:55 – Where is the new investor class willing to rebuild radio?  

52:00 – Personality as the last, best differentiator for radio  

52:43 – Talk radio is the hardest and most expensive format to get right  

53:08 – Gratitude for Jay Harper and the “stars aligning” for the show  

53:37 – Dreaming about a four-mic episode with Wells and Harper  

53:52 – Radio salespeople as bigger characters than on-air talent