Circling The Drain

Unknown: Announcer, welcome to a
podcast about music and

entertainment before it all goes
down to disposal. This is

circling the drain.

Hey, thanks for coming in to
circling the drain, the podcast

that definitely wants to keep
the entertainment and music

business out of the garbage
disposal, if you know what I

mean, we're glad to have you on
board, and we want to introduce

ourselves, because I know a few
of you, probably quite a number

of you don't know who we are, so
I'd like to go around the table

and introduce these fine
gentlemen that are doing this

podcast with me. My name is
Johnny B by the way over onto my

right is a great, great radio
man and

even podcaster, yes, and an even
nicer guy, yeah, a great guy,

and so humble.

Jay Harper, ladies and
gentlemen, Jay, tell a little

bit. You know, you've been in
the radio business. You've been

in the music business,

yeah, yeah, I've had I've had
fun over the last 40 some odd

years. You know, I've been broke
over the last 40 some odd years.

But, you know, I think it's the
fun that really counts. But

yeah, you know, I found I feel
like such a nerd starting out

like this. But yeah, I did start
out at a 1000 watt day timer.

You know, radio, like all of us,
yeah, like many of us that are

that have a few years on us, but
yeah, in high school, in a small

little station, I was 17 years
old, 1978 you know, little

station south of New Orleans
that no longer exists. Well, New

Orleans exists, but the station
no

longer exists. Well, there was a
point where it looked like New

Orleans wasn't going to

exist. Yeah, that is the sad but
true. Yeah, but yeah. But over

the years, you know, work radio
in New Orleans, Baton Rouge,

Louisiana and but in 85 got an
offer to come to Nashville to

work with MCA Records in their
Promotion Department. And that

was, that was a kick ass time to
be at MCA. Oh, you're not

kidding. He has, you know, well,
the great Jimmy Bowen was head

of the label at the time. And
what a character I know. We'll,

we'll probably get into some
Bowen stories at some point.

But, you know, it was just
amazing to, you know, one day

I'm, you know, at a good size
station. You know, big, big

fish, little pond kind of thing
there in Baton Rouge, with, you

know, with 100,000 watt
powerhouse. But to go from a,

you know, radio station in Baton
Rouge Louisiana to be sitting in

a meeting a few days later with
Jimmy Bowen, who would produce

Sinatra's strangers in the
night. And everybody loves

somebody for Dean Martin and
Sammy Davis and and, of course,

at that point, you know, he was
renowned for kind of

revitalizing Hank Jr, yeah, he
did, you know, with family

tradition and produced Haggard's
back to the bar rooms album, so

he Waylon, will the wolf survive
Absolutely. I was around for

that at MCA, but anyway, just to
be in that environment, Tony

brown and then sitting in
meeting and working with the

likes of George Strait, Loretta
Lynn at that time, Conway

Twitty, Barbara Mandrell, the
Oak Ridge Boys, I mean, boy,

talk about culture shock,

and then, and then you move to
99 seven. WTN, next to Dan

mandus,

yeah, the great Weaver. And I
know, yeah, Brother, brother,

everybody's Ken's brother. Yeah,
they are, yeah, but, but yeah,

you know, hitting, you know,
working those, those records and

stuff, getting to be around
Steve Earl and Patty loveless

and Lyle Lovett when they came
up and got to, got to know them

on a more personal level than a
Conway Twitty, you know, but,

and getting to work with Glen
Campbell and Roger Miller, who

were idols of mine when I was
little, especially Campbell and

Roger Miller, just some really,
really fun stuff, but, but

eventually I produce concerts at
fairs and festivals around the

country. And man, you know, the
the song I've been everywhere I

could sing. Well, you don't want
me to sing it, but I could. I

can relate to that song, you
know, because, boy, I feel like

I did go everywhere, producing
concerts again, at fairs and

festivals, primarily country
concerts. Yeah, and did that for

about four or five years, but
have always had radio, whether

it be full time or part time,
kind of in, lurking in the

background, you know, yes, lived
in Charleston, South Carolina,

work radio there. Work radio in
Columbia, work radio outside

Kansas City. So, you know, I
bounced around a little bit, but

always kind of wanted to make
our way back to Nashville. I

mean, I met my wife here. My
kids were. Born here. So it is

home in many ways. So had an
opportunity to come back to

town, and that's where, yes, I
got to run into and for the last

few years get to know and find
myself now sitting here with the

great Johnny B Wow, man. You
know every Jimmy Bowen, who,

yes, exactly, you know? Jimmy B,
No, I'm talking Johnny. B, so

yes, all of the stuff I've done
over the last 47 years was all

meant to circle the drain,
circle back here, right, baby,

to

sit with you. Johnny. B, well,
I'm thankful for you are my

friend.

Yeah, well, man, it's cool. You
know, seriously, you know, we've

known each other a few years
now, yes, and I thought I feel

like, you know we you're such an
easy guy to to like, believe me,

but you

know, that's not what my ex
wife,

but you know, as I, you know,
started working over at cumulus

and working at Ws, MFM and 99
seven and getting to work with

you, and Dan man does, who
seriously, is just such a such a

superhuman what a good dude.
But, you know, it just an

immediate rapport with you, I
felt like and we did. It's, you

know, it's been great, and I'm
appreciative and happy to be

sitting here with

you, man. Well, we kind of came
up with this idea at lunch one

day. We just happened to Jay
invited me out to lunch, and we

had tried this before, and with
Campbell, Valentine and

Campbell, and our schedule just
couldn't mesh up, so we couldn't

make it happen, and I was trying
to think of somebody to do it

with, and Jay just happened to
have lunch with me. And really,

the man that kind of got this
all underway, and he is also

part of this, is Jim McCarthy.
And Jim, a lot of people know

who you are, I don't know not
like you, but we would like to

know more about you? Well, my

name is Jim McCarthy, and I
produce podcasts. Yes, there is

more

witness protection program

if you're gonna, if you're
averse to radio voices, man,

this is not the show for you

guys who speak like we're
constantly on Yeah,

sad but true. Yes, it

is Mommy. I started out at a at
the home of rock and roll. I 95

and Dan Murray Connecticut, and,
you know, former radio guy

myself. And yeah, you know, I,
you know, the money wasn't

there, but you know, they paid
us in experiences. That's true.

The guys who made the money and
the people who made the money

over those years don't have the
experiences that

we have. That's true. And with,
he used to pay us with, with

concert tickets, concert
tickets. Now that doesn't happen

anymore, no, yeah. Or, you know,
he had some trade out

That's right, yeah, $10 off on a
haircut, yeah, anything like

that, yeah, just really life
changing

freebies, yeah? Or free drinks
sometimes at clubs, you know?

Yeah, yeah, cuz

I did that too. Man, spinning
records in the nightclubs. At

the end of the night, I look
over behind me and there'd be

like, 50 bourbon and coat
glasses. Oh, yeah. Like, gee, I

Yeah. People wonder why. They
always go, Johnny, how did you

get, you know what? Why did you
get so hung up on alcohol and

all those other things? Well,
because people were giving it to

exactly, and it didn't cost me

anything. It's like you guys
were, you guys were in radio,

and it was a lot of fun. Yeah,
it was, I got into radio and it

stopped, kind of like it was
still fun for me, don't get me

wrong, but probably not as fun
as what you guys

had. Yeah, well, I was in radio.
Well, I got started in radio.

One fact, to introduce myself to
folks. I actually grew up in

radio. My father owned country
stations in the Midwest, and he

also was very good friend. In
fact, he came up in Alabama with

Hank Williams. He used to do
shows with Hank Williams, yeah,

and Audrey Williams. And in
fact, my mother and my father

both sang, and mother wouldn't
want to hang out with Hank and

Audrey because they she thought
they were creepy. Was what was

dad's story. But I got started
in radio, working at dad's

station, working nine at night
till six in the morning. Mercy,

that was a nine hour shift, nine
hour shift, and I hate to say

but that that's when I started
getting amphetamines, you know,

because it would help me stay
up. Because, yeah, I was having

a heck of a time staying awake.
But anyway, grew up in a

household. We had Jimmy Dean and
Roy Clark were a lot, a lot of

times a guest at the house. It
was very interesting, because

Roy was a lot of fun to have
around the house, and for

especially kids. Roy knew how to
entertain kids, and I really dug

Roy. Jimmy was a little more.
Yeah, he was more for the

adults, but he did something
hilarious. I've got to share is

Jimmy Dean. One time he was the
for those that don't know. Jimmy

Dean used to have, like, an ABC
television program. He was one

of the first, I think, country
guys to have, and the Muppets

were, yes, that's where you had
Ralph start. Yeah, Ralph the

dog, right, right? So anyway,
Jimmy would stay at the house.

Now, our neighbors didn't like
us, because they call us

hillbillies. You know, we don't
want to hang out with those

hillbillies over there, right?
But when Jimmy would come visit,

all of a sudden, like neighbors
would come and bring pies and be

looking over my because my
mother was like 411 and they'd

be looking over her to see if
they could get a glimpse of

Jimmy. But they never knew Jimmy
Dean got on my dad's my dad's

Cub Cadet, wearing his swimming
trunks, and my mother's swimming

like a shower hat she had. He
just covered himself in that and

he mowed our grass, and he later
sent my dad a bill for $10,000

for lawn care.

You just got to ask. But anyway,
I could say is no,

I worked there at Wichita for
many years, then moved to

Nashville in 1977 and worked a
lot in country radio, then moved

on to moved on to contemporary
hit radio, where you have a lot

of Michael Bolton and Mariah
Carey, and that's where I first

met Phil Valentine, who A lot of
people know as a talk show host

that used to be on W, L, A, C,
AM, and also 99 7w, T, n. I

worked with Phil for many years,
and also Dan mandus after Phil

passed, and that was a couple of
years there, but I would like to

dedicate this, this episode to
Phil Valentine. Because if it

weren't for Phil Valentine, all
of us would have never probably

met. And when you come down to
it,

right, right? And you know, I
never got to meet Phil. You

know, when I first moved to
Nashville in 85 I heard him on

on the music radio, yeah, W, L,
A, C, Lac, yeah. But, you know,

it just goes to show a man I
never met, sadly, still still

having influences on people's
lives, because just what you

said is very true. You know, if
it weren't for him, you and I

would not be, not be sitting
here, not being I did not know

that

about you. You haven't met him.
No, he'd never know. I never met

Phil, no, because I came aboard
99 seven, you know, in a in a

part time capacity right after
Phil passed. So, yeah, I never

got the chance to meet him.

Well, and it's interesting,
because this brings the subject

that we wanted to talk about
today with, because this is all

about entertainment. I mean,
that's what we're talking about.

And when Phil Valentine passed,
I was really blown away by how

many people were coming up to
me. And I'm not just talking

about at station events. I'm
talking about going to the

grocery store or anywhere else,
people that had never met him.

And I can't tell you how many
tears are probably on my, you

know, clothes from people that
just missed him. They were

hugging me, they said, but we
miss him so much. And I mean,

I'm talking about men too, grown
men crying. And it really got to

me. I was thinking about how
people affect our lives that are

in the entertainment industry.
When they pass, even if we don't

know them, it really affects us,
like Elvis. I remember when

Elvis passed.

Oh, me too. I was a kid. It was
one of those, you know, do you

remember where you were moments
Exactly? Yeah, yeah. I was, I

was working as a bell hop. I was
16 years old, you know, August

of 77 and I was working as a
bellhop at a hotel in the French

Quarter, New Orleans. Wow. And
there's some stories there.

Yeah. I can remember. The the
black folks that worked at the

at the hotel, in the kitchen,
one of the waiters came running

in crying, oh yeah, man, Elvis.
Did you hear Elvis died? Elvis

died. They were, everybody was
shocked,

right? You know, oh they were, I
mean, it was just mind numbing.

And you know, when you talk
about Elvis, in fact, I have a

great story about my father's
station, which was country

music, but it was after Elvis
passed and the station was going

to do you. Moment of silence for
Elvis and dad's setup was kind

of weird, because the the
transmitter building was in the

north part of Kansas, and there
was a guy there that an

engineer, that all he did, his
whole job was to stay there, and

if there was ever any dead air
to hit a record. And so they

were going to do this. They were
going to do this moment of

silence for Elvis, and all of a
sudden they start the silence.

And there's probably about 10
seconds of silence. They have

off air alarms. All of a sudden
you hear a bluegrass song.

Everybody was upset with old
gene that he was the, he was the

engineer up there. But I
thought, you know, Elvis would

have dug that. Yeah, he would
have thought it was hilarious.

But, you know, Elvis was huge.
Another huge one was John Lennon

of The Beatles. That was
shocking,

yeah, again, the the immediacy,
the just the shocking nature of

that you're you're absolutely
right. You know when you and I

talked? I mean, it was about
around the same time I was

working radio. I was on the air
that morning when we got the

word in December of 82 I'm
thinking it was like December 9,

eighth or ninth of 82 when Marty
Robbins passed, yes, and even

though he had had some pretty
well known health issues, he had

heart problems as a young man.
But still, I remember grown men

calling the radio station
requesting Marty Robbins in

tears. Oh, yeah, you know, so
the impact that that these,

these celebrities have on
people's lives, as you say, as

you state, is just it's hard to
measure, you know,

well, and

it made me really wonder too, it
really happened with Johnny

Cash? When Johnny Cash passed,
because I was guest hosting for

Phil on WAC, and we were trying
to we were going to do like

there was like we usually do in
talk radio. There's all kinds of

political subjects we wanted to
talk about, but all people

wanted to talk about was Johnny
Cash, how he affected their

lives. And why do you think
people get so involved with

like, these people's lives, like
they, they is it just, do you

think it's, it's just like a
part of their past is gone? Or

do they you think they really
have a they feel like they have

a relationship? And I think

it could be a bit of both,
Johnny, you know, especially for

musicians, because music has
just such an impact on people's

emotions Exactly. You know,
songs that bring up memories,

or, you know, you remember where
you were in your life when that

song was popular, or that artist
just really touched a nerve with

you, or maybe a family member
really loved an artist, yes, and

so that artist brings back great
memories of your mom or your

dad, because that artist was so
special to them. For me, for

example, Merle Haggard is still
my guy in his prime and country.

Nobody wrote him and sang him
any better than the hag. And my

first real concert experience
just me and my dad and I'm going

to get Misty here was seeing
Merle Haggard in concert New

Orleans Municipal Auditorium,
1972 and I remember there was

like flooding in the area that
night, yeah, and I remember our

car on the way to the concert.
Our car got lifted up in the

flood and started floating. But
anyway, we got to the show and

even, and what's cool about that
concert is it was recorded as an

album I love Dixie blues is the
name of that album, and it was

recorded live in New Orleans.
And my my dad and I were there,

and I have that album, of
course. So, you know, playing

that album, man takes me back,
12 years old, you know. But even

the even haggard, made a comment
about water dripping on his

microphone because there was a
leak in the in the ceiling there

at the Municipal Auditorium. But
you know, so anyway, you know

Merle Haggard, there's a special
kind of relationship. That was

my dad's guy and it became my
guy. But anyway, to just kind of

answer your question, yeah, I
think people just get

emotionally involved, especially
with musicians and with certain

actors and other celebrities.
Oh, sure, you know, Robin

Williams, you know the way he
passed was so sad. Oh, it was

sad. And you know, you hear all
these wonderful stories about

just what a good human he was,
you know, just a really good.

Warm guy. So, yeah, I think that
people can just relate, because

they just strike certain
celebrities anyway, just strike

emotions in people.

Well, that's very true. I think
because my guy was Waylon Jim,

yeah, yeah, he was the whole
reason I came to

Nashville, yeah, you know, and I
got to work with him a bit, and

interesting dude, I

bet, yeah, he was interesting.
But I remember when he passed.

It was real strange, because we
were doing doing our show, and

somebody from waylands family,
they wouldn't identify

themselves, but they called me
on February 13, yeah, 2002 and

they they said that we wanted to
see if you knew that Wayland had

passed. And I said, No, I did
not know. And it hit me like I

couldn't believe the loss I
felt. Yeah, because and you're

right. Waylon Jennings, if it
hadn't been for Waylon Jennings,

my father and I probably would
have never gotten as close,

because I remember the first
time I ever had a Waylon

Jennings, because I before then
I was deep purple, Jimi Hendrix.

I was all into rock and roll,
and all of a sudden I'm playing,

I think it was this time album.
And dad burst into my room and

he said, Are you liking this?
And I said, Oh, dig him. I said,

I think he's really good. Yes, I
was probably, I would think I

was 15 at the time. Oh, wow.
Yeah, that's cool. 15 years old,

because everything else, you
know, he would hear me playing

Hendrix, and he would go, you
know, son, he's hearing things

you nobody else can hear. And
I'm going, Well, Dad, I can hear

it. He didn't like that answer,
but, but Waylon, Jennings,

Johnny, in fact, when dad
passed, it was really I was very

gifted. I was given a great gift
from God with my father passing.

And it's strange to say that,
but my dad was visiting

Nashville, and we had a moment
alone for just a few minutes,

and we talked very deeply about
our radio careers, and he told

me he was proud of me and all
that. And I told him I was proud

of him, but he asked me, he
said, Do you miss Waylon and

Johnny catch said, Oh, yeah.
World's just not the same

without those guys in it. He
said, Son, it's very important

that you live life and and
appreciate all the simple

things. Because he said, that
proves to you, right there, you

never know when your time is
going to come. And it was only

10 minutes later that he went,
Oh, wow. Massive heart attack.

Oh my god. So that was a great
that was a great moment and a

great life lesson. But you're
right, it's all about, well,

like you and I, we were very
affected by the death of Eddie

Van Halen. Oh yeah, I remember
that day vividly.

I mean, I have actually talking
about, where were you? When?

Types of stories. You know that
year 2020, was a tumultuous year

for a lot of people. Neil Peart
passed in January of that year,

great drummer, and I was in the
midst of recording the rich

Redmond show. Rich Redmond
show.com go check it out.

Cheap plug, and got to do it
whenever you can. My friend, I

was acting producer as well as
co host on that show. Rich was

main host, interviewing one of
the guests, another guest,

another drummer, who was very
influenced by Neil, and I was

just, you know, researching
stuff on the computer like I

did, and that's when I found
out. You actually, could

actually see my visceral
reaction of me finding out on

camera, when I found out that he
died, man, and that's, that's,

I'm like, I don't know if I'm
great. I could maybe I am

grateful for that. But then, you
know, yeah, back in October

comes and Eddie dies, and it's
like crying out loud, man, these

are two big heroes in my

life. Oh, you're not kidding.
Well, then I was talking about

Waylon Jennings, you know that
whole from 2002 to 2003 I lost a

lot of country heroes. I lost,
you know, we lost Wayland. We

lost Johnny paycheck, yeah. Lost
Johnny under appreciated, John,

yeah, Johnny paycheck was under
appreciate, yeah. He was a wild

and crazy guy, yeah.

But you know, when that whole
Hank Williams, well, that whole

outlaw period of country, right?
You know all you hear, and

deservedly so is Waylon and
Willie Tom, Paul and the Glazer

brothers, Jesse Coulter, David
Allen, CO, CO, yeah, but

paycheck, man. I mean, he seems
to be forgotten in that

discussion. He shouldn't be
great talent. He had some great

stuff, oh yeah, and great story.
I played a few shows with him,

and we'll have to talk about
that some other time.

You talk about an interesting
guy,

but you know, you talk about,
you know, your father asking

you, do you miss Waylon and
Johnny Cash? And we can say,

Yes, we do. But the cool thing
is, they're still there. We can

play their music. Yeah. And you
know, when it comes to, you

know, we've lost our maybe you
have recording maybe you have

some old air checks of your dad.
I don't

know, my dad made records. Yeah,
my mother made records too.

Yeah. They live on through

Okay, yeah. But you know, so
many fans, we don't have that

now, you know I don't have, you
know, my dad passed in 2011

Yeah, you know, I don't, all I
have are photographs, you know,

and I'm thankful for that. But
you know, there's something

about hearing the voice, yeah,
that really, really connects

with you. How was, how old was
your dad? Jake, oh, mercy. He

was 77 and he just, he
collapsed, pulmonary embolism.

Just, he was there, then he
wasn't.

Yep, that's way my father,
Johnny, what about yours? He was

80, okay. And my mother life
lived? Yeah, my mother was

different. She died. I was just
a few weeks of turning 16, and

she was actually on Decker
records, Oh, yeah. And she had a

few top 10 hits, but Dad got
jealous. Dad was kind of weird

because he didn't like he didn't
like anybody else in the family,

you know, having any kind of
notoriety

or so, what name did your mom
record under

Jeannie Pearson? And you can
look it up on YouTube. Yeah,

have a few of her I wanted to do
that. Yeah, they have a few of

her records on there, but yeah,
and Gary Stewart was another one

that I loved, good writer, and
he committed suicide,

right? 2003 you know,

you know, Farron young also, oh,
yeah, you know, committed

suicide. And, you know, I had an
interaction with him that we can

discuss one day, but

let's discuss it now. I mean,
Farron young. I used to hang out

with him, actually, at the Hall
of Fame Motor Inn. It used to

that's what he called, right?
And he would go down there, and

I used to go there at the same
time to drink, have a little

drink in the afternoon, and he
and I would start talking, I

don't know he, I don't think he
knew my name or anything, yeah,

but, and I did know my father, I
did talk about these, oh yeah, I

know that's cool. But anyway, it
was really funny because he

started in on Wayland that, you
know, waylons all screwed up on

this cocaine, and, you know,
he's gone broke. He was, I said,

Well, Farron, what's in your
glass there? He said, Coca Cola.

And I said, Well, let me have a
he said, you're not touching.

He was a funny guy. I really did
like him,

yeah, and people forget that.
You know, certainly later

generations. I'm sure many
people watching this maybe have

no idea who Farron Young was,
but, you know, there was a time

when that dude was, he was on
top of the world, man, oh yeah,

he was a superstar. He was the
singing sheriff. You know, he

was in movies out in LA had his
own talk show. You know, a nice

looking guy could sing his butt
off. Back in my concert

production days, I had produced
a show. It was a festival in the

Quad Cities. Was it like Rock
Island, Moline, Davenport and

Silvis, Illinois? You know where
Illinois and Iowa meet? There

any Quad Cities? But there was a
big festival there, and Farron

Young was one of the acts. There
were several acts on the bill

there. And, you know, was in the
heat of the summer. It's 1000

degrees, and Farron Young is,
you know, they had a big it was

literally a tractor trailer bed,
you know, as a stage, yeah, you

know, like they would do with
those fast Country Music Days,

but it was good science and
stuff. Lee Greenwood was the

headliner for that. That's what
everybody was waving on. But

yeah, Farron young got out there
three piece suit. I'll never

forget. It was a three piece
blue suit, you know, with a tie

and all this again, 1000
degrees. And Farron young

sounded wonderful. I mean, he
got out there and sang his ass.

He was fantastic. Oh, great,
great. And, you know, half the

crowd is not paying any
attention to the guy. Anyway,

later that evening, I was having
dinner. It was like one in the

morning. I think it was at a
Denny's

that had a bar, which is that
was like, wow,

that's a nice Denny. We've gone,

we've gone to heaven a Denny's
with a bar. But anyway, a friend

of mine that was there with the
show. Anyway, we went and had

dinner, and I saw Farron young
sitting in the corner by himself

eating. And as we got up to
leave, I go up and I say, you

know, hey, Mr. Farron, you know,
saw you at your show. Gosh, you

know, you sound wonderful. It
was great to see you. And he

started tearing up. Oh, wow. And
he's like, Thank you, you know,

thank you so much. You don't
know how much I appreciate that,

you know. And that has always
just kind of struck me, you

know. And it really wasn't that
much later, when. The when the

poor man committed

suicide? Well, yeah, everything
was kind of crumbling, yeah,

getting and you

can only imagine what it's like
to be on top of the world and

then nobody, you know, give a
rat's ass about you from an

entertainment standpoint. Well,
I mean, it's got to be such a

kick to the ego.

It really is. I mean, it's like,
you know, when you're in radio

and they fire you by computer,
it's, you know, it really jars.

Who could that have happened? I
don't know. I

don't know, but it was a crime,
I tell you. Anyway, we've had a

lot of this year. I couldn't get
over this year. Oh man, one

right after the other. We've had
Lonnie Anderson did be krp, and

since then, she was 82 Yeah,
she,

well, she, she died, I think,
like the day before her 80th

birthday. Yes, that's right, she
was 79 That's

right, yeah, she was, I met her
once, yeah, did you really,

yeah, when I was in radio in
Vegas, and very, very shy,

really, she was memorable
because she was this very kind

of, you could tell she was a bit
of an introvert. And, you know,

over the attention, I think she
just wanted to live her life

well, you know, a lot of people
are like that famous. You know,

they're not. We all think
they're now. David Lee Roth, I

doubt is shy. No, he certainly
is not. But we also lost Hulk

Hogan. Ozzy Osbourne, yeah. And
Ozzy, I can understand why a lot

of people were because Ozzy
Osbourne, I mean, that was my

first rock concert. My sister
took me. I was, I think I was

all of 10 or 11, wow. And that
was my first rock concert, and

first place I ever smelled
marijuana. Smell it, I said,

Peggy, what's that smell? That's
marijuana, John, but I really

liked Black Sabbath. Why am I so
hungry? Why can I not remember

where we live? But anyway,

I first smelled weed at a
concert, at a John Denver

concert. Well,

of course, it was John himself.

Another guy lost too soon. Yeah?
John Denver,

yeah, yeah. And, what a great
talent, underappreciated talent,

very

underappreciated. But Ozzy, I
can understand, because he's

old, not only that, but he was
such a part. I mean, he was on

television, you know, he did the
reality TV thing. People that

weren't even into rock and roll
watch

that. Yeah, and I think in
because of the reality TV he is,

he has fans in their 70s, in
fans in their teens, exactly,

you know, so a big, wide swath
of Yes, of generations that

really took to him.

And the same with Hulk Hogan. I
mean, Hulk Hogan had been in

movies he had done, you know,
reality TV. He also had Malcolm

Jamal Warner. A lot of people
may not know, but that was Theo

Huxtable exactly on the show. He
also did it. My wife got into

watching that. I want to say it
was the resident, that may have

been the name of it.

And then he was on a sitcom
right on, B, E, T, yeah, like

Malcolm and me, or something
like that. Yes, yeah, yeah. So,

great actor, yeah, you know, in
54 years old, which you know,

way too young. Yeah.

We also lost Val Kilmer, great
actor.

We lost Richard Chamberlain. A
lot of people

remember him from The Thorn
Birds or Dr Kildare,

Gene Hackman, yeah, we lost Gene
Hackman this

year. He was, like, his 90s,
though, yes, yeah,

was but, but so kind of bizarre
and mysterious, and still they

there are questions

about, well, yeah. And what's
sad is that his wife apparently

died before he did, right? Yeah,
he was relying on her. So he

that poor man was in the house
alone, not knowing, because he

was suffering from dementia.
Yeah, dementia. And so he didn't

even he had to be taken care of.
But she was gone. She was dead.

And so, yeah, that was a very,
very sad. And then we also had

Dave, which David Johansen,
anybody that remembered rock

from the 70s, New York Dolls?
And he also Buster Poindexter,

wasn't that is,

Oh yeah, yeah, that's right,
yeah. We lost. And they had a he

had that somewhat hot, hot, hot,

yes, yes,

the Bill Murray movie, Scrooged.
Yeah, right.

But you know, I think, I think
with radio, like in Phil's case,

also Rush Limbaugh's case, yeah,
is that, I think the audience

feels a little closer to
somebody like that, because on

radio, radio is such a like when
you're watching a movie, or

you're listening to records, or
you're going to concert, you're

kind of sharing the experience
with other people. When you're

listening to a talk show, a talk
radio show, it's usually you

alone in the car, yeah, and you
start to build and you hear

about these, you know, Rush
talked about his personal. Life

filled in constantly. You know,
you got to know his boys, you

got to know Susan, his wife. And
I think it's harder for people.

I think it hits people harder
when it's somebody like that

that's on the radio that they
get to know, well, intimately,

especially when it's a radio
personality that has mastered,

the ability to be one on one and
intimate and make it feel as

though you were the only one
listening, which now was a and

not everybody, not everybody can
do that. You know, there's a

there's a special talent there,
and also the fact that you

listen every day, yes, you know
it's like every day, they're a

part of your a part of your

day. Well, they are. They're
part of your life. And I think

that's why, because I've seen
people, I mean, I've seen people

get emotional over, you know,
people that are celebrities and

whatever. But I've seen, I've
seen more people get far more

emotional when it comes to
somebody that's on the radio and

especially talk show host, I
don't know, like I said, I think

the reason behind that is that,
like I said, that it's more

personal. You're right there in
the car with them. You feel like

they're a part of your life,
even if you don't know them,

right? And especially if it's a
talk show host that is local,

yeah, and they're talking about
the same, you know, they hit the

same pothole you did this
morning, and exactly, they're

able to relate these local and
personal stories, as opposed to

maybe somebody that's syndicated
and they're coming from Denver

or whatever, right?

So, you know, even in
syndication, I think Phil, I

noticed that Phil was was
connecting with people in

Florida, he was connecting with
it was the same thing. And in

fact, it got When, when, when
they were doing it right, when

Westwood one was actually
getting him on stations that had

a great audience. There was at
one time we couldn't hardly get

our callers in Nashville to get
on, because you had so it was

when we were on in Cincinnati,
also in Houston and those

audiences, I mean, they fell in
love with him and,

well, again, he was a special
talent. Not everybody, not

everybody

could do that. No, they couldn't
Rush was really good,

absolutely, you know, regardless
of, I know there are a lot of

radio people that did not like
Rush Limbaugh because of his

political leanings, but, but
from a radio standpoint, and his

ability to connect with an
audience, he was just an

absolute master.

Well, it's the same with Phil.
You know, there were radio

people that didn't like Phil
because they didn't like his

political stances, but I think
it goes deeper than that,

though, with radio people
sometimes, sometimes it's

jealousy. You know, jealousy,
all these people are successful,

Yeah, boy, you nailed that. And
but let's face it, Limbaugh,

that man saved am radio. At the
time, he

saved talk radio. He saved am
radio. I mean, he made talk

radio. If you listen to talk
radio before brush a lot of it

was boring,

yeah. I mean, okay, you had your
Larry kings and all that to

certainly have their place in
radio history. Don't get me

wrong, but you're right. Rush
Limbaugh was just a different

animal.

Man. Oh, he was Rush was great.
So was I also liked, personally,

I liked Phil Hendry. I thought
Phil Henry was an

interesting character. He was
man, man of 1000 voices. Yes.

I mean, those guys just made
talk radio fun to listen to, and

Phil did too, and that was
probably my most fun I've ever

had in radio. And I have to add
Dan mandus and Ken Weaver and

also Joan Jones. I was shocked,
because I was shocked, because I

didn't think I'd ever find that
again, and I did. I had a lot of

fun working with those people.

Yeah, you know, the sucky part
about it, and you and I know it

well, is, you know, getting up
two or three in the morning,

that morning shift, it would all
while it may be fun, it's still

man kill you.

Literally, I can tell hurting my
my

health, yeah, yeah. I mean, I've
worked morning radio at other

stations over the years, and
boy, you know that that getting

up two or three in the morning,
it catches up to you, especially

as you get older.

Well, I worry about Damn man,
just because this guy, he will

fill in later, man, well, he
will fill in on, like, on red

eye radio, which is all night,
all night, all night, then he'll

get off there, go in, do the
morning show, and then do a do a

fill in in Washington, DC,
somewhere later that afternoon,

right? All in one day, all in
one day. I'm thinking, How do

you do it? Man, but he

can. It's a race. Radio is a
passionate industry. Man, yes,

it is, that's the thing. Is that
I always try to impress upon

radio people, because there are
people in radio and then there

are radio people. Yes, there is
a difference radio people like

I've always told you, even when
you were on my podcast, you are

still valued us. You still have
value, even if the industry

doesn't see it. Podcasting needs
you, you know, even with Mr. Dan

mandus and stuff like that, bad
buddy, you know, you probably

don't need a big bang in your
head against the wall. No, you

could be

podcasting. Well, this is more
fun, I'll tell you,

right? Is more free form, that's
for sure. And

I was gonna say that before, you
know, I were talking about Phil

Valentine and what kind of what
kind of, what was the connection

that he had? I think it was kind
of an every man. You know, he

was a very relatable every man.
He was the epitome of radio when

it comes to the one on one
connection, absolutely. But I

think he was a brotherly and
fatherly figure to a lot of

people. He probably had a
lacking element of that in their

lives.

Well, he was, and I'm glad you
brought that up, because he was

the kind of guy. I remember even
the people that came in and

cleaned the station one year,
Phil did really well, and he

gave these folks a bonus
himself, handed out he didn't

have to do that. No, he did not.
And he was the kind of guy too

that I don't care if you were
the cleaning crew or if you were

you know you you were a producer
on a another show, no matter who

you were, if you came in and
said hello to him, man, that

dude talked to you and got to
know you, there was a guy at the

station that didn't agree with
him politically at all. This guy

did production. This guy had
written a screenplay. Do what,

I think I know who you're
talking about,

but yeah, he did a screenplay.
He did a screenplay, and he

said, man. And he told me this
after Phil passed, he said it

really touched me because Phil
said, Give me a copy of I want

to read it. And, and Phil tried
to help him get his screenplay

to the proper people. I mean, he
was that kind of guy, yeah, and,

like, even us, you know, my wife
and I were trying to buy a

house, and we were a little
short on the money side, and

Phil helped me out, wow, and I
paid back some of it. But then

he I was I made one payment. He
said, Johnny, after this, you're

good, yeah, you're just, you're
considerate, you know the bills

pay. I said, Man, I don't want
to pay you back totally. He

goes, No, just, he said, they
don't pay you enough here. He

said, You're a talented guy. You
deserve it. And

you mean he didn't put his mafia
voice on and say what I'm

gonna need to do some things for
us. You know, if you don't, you

may be swimming over here in the
river somewhere. It's really we

used to love to do those.

But anyway, I you know that it's
just hard to lose people that

have been such a big part of our
lives, like, you know, Elvis

Wayland, John Lennon, Eddie Van
Halen, Phil Valentine, Rush

Limbaugh, whoever it is,
whatever, even their sports

people that we've lost like you
Muhammad Ali

Yeah, you know Ryan Sandberg,
who passed here recently, yes,

you know, I know that,
especially for folks in Chicago,

you know, he really, really
meant a lot, not just to the

Cubs, but to the city. Oh,

yeah, there's, like, also Howard
Tilley with Miami Dolphin. He

died this past year. But yeah,
it's just, and you had a

Muhammad Ali, didn't you have a
Muhammad Ali picture

that you brought? Well, yeah, I
had a, well, you bring that up?

I had, why not? Muhammad Ali was
huge, yeah? And I grew up just

fascinated by the guy, because
he was a fascinating character.

And all of the you know,
political stuff aside. I know he

turned a lot of people off, but
you know, you have to consider

the era and the time, you know
the 60s is when you know there

was so much turmoil in the
country and stuff, and he

energized as a celebrity, he
interjected himself in the whole

political thing and what was
going on. But, but all that

aside, I just found the man
fascinating, not only from a

personal standpoint, but
certainly from an athletic

standpoint. You know, kept
losing the title and winning it

back and losing the you know,
right? But he, in one of his

comebacks, he was to fight Leon
Spinks in the Superdome in New

Orleans, and it was quite a big
deal. And part of the promotion

for that fight, he came to town
in New Orleans, he was going to

make an appearance. And. He was
to go to the ticket office

there. This is back before
online and all that you had to

physically go to an office and
buy a ticket, some for events.

But so again, this is 1978 I was
17 years old, you know, living

in New Orleans, but he came to
town as part of a ticket

promotion, and he was to, as I
say, appear at the ticket

office. But he came in in grand
fashion. He came in on the

Natchez river boat in New
Orleans, up the Mississippi

River, and he was to get off the
boat and make his way to the to

the ticket office. Well, I had a
summer job at a refinery that

year, making five bucks an hour
man in 1970 78 which was pretty

good, which was money? Yeah,
you're not good. But anyway, I

called in sick at my laborers
job at the refinery because it

was my I had a drawing. I was a
fairly good artist at one time,

and I had a Muhammad Ali
drawing, and I was bound to

determine to get him to
autograph that. So I said, All

right, I'm going to go to that
ticket office, darn it, and I am

going to get Ali to sign my
drawing. Well, as I said, he

pulled he came in big to do the
the brass band and the jazz band

and all that greet him at the
dock as the Natchez river boat

comes to the dock, he gets off,
and he's in a they put him in a

horse and carriage. They're
taking him to the ticket office

through the streets of New
Orleans in the quarter. Because

the ticket office, if I
remember, was kind of downtown,

almost in the French Quarter.
But anyway, he was in a horse

and carriage, and I got about as
close to the man as we are,

right, you know, walking along.
And of course, he's got these

guards and stuff, you know,
walking along the carriage,

which I fully understood. But
anyway, I followed that care me

and 200 other people follow that
carriage all the way downtown,

and he gets out to the to the
ticket office. Well, they some

guy came out of the office and
yelled to the crowd. You know,

if you come into the ticket
office and buy a ticket, you can

get a picture and an autograph
from Ali. I'm like, son of a

gun. I mean, the tickets were
like, 25 bucks to sit in the top

of the dome, right? Which was a
lot of money. I didn't have

that, but so well. Anyway, the
crowd starts chanting, Ali, Ali.

So finally, Mr. Ego Muhammad,
Ali. He comes out of the ticket

office. He stands on a chair and
starts that Ali shtick. You

know, the greatest, you know,
all that stuff, yeah. And, of

course, the crowds going nuts. I
am in a sea of people. I am

probably, oh gosh, 20 yards away
from where he was doing all

this. And I said to me, and I
had walked to that entire I've

been there the entire day,
walking along. And this is a

couple of hours. You know, a few
hours is how long it took all

this to transpire between him,
getting off the boat, getting to

the office. There, I had my
drawing rolled up in my hand the

entire time. So while he's going
through his spiel, he looks

around and he's, you know, the
people are going crazy. I said,

All right, Mr. Ego, here, I
unrolled, I unfurled the drawing

and held it up, and he
immediately zoned in on it. Wow.

And I'm like, champ, champ. Can
you please sign this for me? And

he just kind of looks and he
goes, you know, he motions for

it to be brought up to him.
Yeah, so my heart goes in my

throat as I hand this drawing to
the people in front of me. But

the crowd was cool. They did
the, you know, they they passed

it up to him. So he finally gets
the drawing, he unrolls it, and

he looks at it, and he smiles
like approvingly, yeah, and, and

he said he he held it up to his
face. That's great. And I

remember hearing cameras going
off, yeah, to this day, I have

yet to find anybody that I know
that life mag Sports Illustrated

somebody Yeah, has pictures of
that man holding up the drawing

to his face, yeah. But anyway,
he held in the crowd.

You didn't take a selfie. He

holds it up to his face, and the
crowd goes, yeah. And he says

something that, well, he uses
the N word, okay, yeah. And he

said, Man, there ain't no N word
fighter this pretty well. So

him. And he signed it, and he
held it back, you know, and the

crowd, you know,

they they brought it back to
you, they brought it back to me.

Well, that's unheard

All right? And that wouldn't
happen today. No, I would not

this. Wow,

if I that's really good. You
drew that, yeah, 17 years old

man. He did, that's the time
when I, when I did okay. But is

that pencil? Charkin? Chocolate,
charcoal? Maybe. Yeah, this the

drawing is just, is just pencil,
but to tilt it forward a little

bit, yeah? But he signed, it's
78 Muhammad Ali, wow. And I'm

told that, you know, he later in
life, he was, like a lot of lot

of athletes, he signed a lot of
stuff, but the fact that it was

during his active time he signed
at 78 makes this, if I ever

wanted to get rid of it, makes
it pretty valuable. Well, you're

not kidding for Ali fans,

and you did a great job

on that, yeah, so, but yeah, you
know, as you can imagine, that's

a prize possession. And,

oh yeah, hang on, that's really
cool. What a great story behind.

But that is a

great story, yeah, so, you know.
And I can remember standing

there in the crowd, and people
are jamming their hands in my

back pockets and stuff, you
know. So I I actually had my

wallet down. I stuck it down in
my underwear, over my crotch,

because people that's that's
good to know. Let's keep it the

frame.

I learned that. I learned that
at Mardi Gras. Okay, you don't

put your you don't put your
wallet in your back pocket at

Mardi Gras, that's where you put
it. But of course, in New

Orleans, putting stuff at your
crotch, that ain't foolproof

either. But anyway, so yeah,
that was quite the experience,

man. But yeah, you know Merle
Haggard. My favorite memory.

That's one of my favorite
memories. It is a good memory.

It was kind of my my encounter
with the greatest

well, they kind of wrap this up.
I'll tell you another great mom

and Ali story. It came from
Wayland, Jennings. I saw it on

it was whatever Gary Chapman was
hosting. I think it was called

Music City. Tonight. Is after
Ralph had I know there was Ralph

Nashville. Now, wasn't it? Was
it started out Nashville. Now I

think, yeah, I think it became
something, yeah, you're right. I

don't know. I don't know. It may
have kept the same. But anyway,

he was talking to Wayland
Jennings, and Waylon was talking

about that his daughter was
dating this guy, and she brought

the guy to her house. She didn't
tell him her last name, that

Jennings was her last name. She
brings, she brings this guy to

her home, which is waylons
house. He said, I answer the

door. And he said, on one side
of me is Johnny Cash, and on

another side of me is Muhammad
Ali. And he said, This poor

boy's eyes look like the look
like the donkey on Hee Haw, and

he said, I just looked at the
kids. Said, rough life, ain't

it, son. But anyway, I
appreciate everybody joining us

on our podcast, the debut
circling the drain. We're going

to have a lot more, and we're
going to have some interesting

guests for you too in the
future, but we hope you always

join us, and we hope that you
have a great day, whatever it

is, and don't, don't just go
down the drain circle the drain

baby. That's from Johnny and Jim
and Jay. We'll see you next time

you I'm.